LL vs. BFRPG

[Brad]

I see a lot of love for BasicFantasy RPG in various locales on the interweb, but Labyrinth Lord is generally ignored, except here. What gives? Why all the admiration for BF? I think LL does a superior job in content, and the layout looks professional compared to the amateurish approach of BF. Is there something I'm missing here? Is BF better in some mystical way I have yet to discern?

Someone, please explain this to me.

[Random]

I prefer Labyrinth Lord for a number of reasons:

#1: The text reads a little better (to me).
#2: It's truer to the classic game we all know and love.
#3: I prefer the layout, and like the artwork better than in Basic Fantasy.
#4: It's more compatible with Mutant Future (obviously) than Basic Fantasy is, even though some conversion (hit points) is still needed.
#5: I enjoy the community over here, and these boards are little more organized than the gobs of random [BFRPG]-tagged threads at Dragonsfoot.
#6: I'm hoping LL catches on so more people will be playing the game I enjoy.

Reasons to play Basic Fantasy instead:

#1: You may prefer their layout/art.
#2: They have a few fresh takes rather than re-creating all of the old rules.
#3: They are still hardcore editting, trying to perfect it, while LL is pretty good already, but not perfect.
#4: Chris has a few more supplements and online utilities that no one has made for Labyrinth Lord.

There may be more reasons, but that's what I can think of atm.
I agree, I find Labyrinth Lord to be more polished and would be my game of choice between the two.

No offense to the BFRPG guys. It's a great game as well, just not quite as much for me as LL is.

[GoblinoidGames]

Some people prefer separate race/classes, which BFRPG does offer in the core book.

[Random]

Thanks, I forgot about that (haven't read through BFRPG in a while).

I think it also had a section talking about castles and whatnot, which was kinda nifty.

[The Lizard of Oz]

The ascending ac of BFRPG gets mentioned a lot. I prefer THAC0 myself but the conversion from one to the other is easy enough as to be a non-issue.

As far as the race/class thing goes. Cutting my teeth on 2nd Edition and playing a limited about of 1st and even some 3.0, Labyrinth Lord is the first game where I got to play race as class. So, it's actually a selling point for me.

I do agree with Random on the forums thing. BFRPG has enough fans, players and support that Chris could set up his own forum and it would be well trafficked I think.

Personally I think BFRPG gets a little more love because of the race/class split, ascending ac (hits closer to home for the 3.x crowd) and the difference in license. But this is just my opinion.

[edsan]

I might be shooting in the dark here, but I always felt BFRPG was more "popular" than LL for two simple reasons:

A) It has been avaiable for longer.

B) The bizzare (and assinine) competetive tendency between fans of different fantasy retro-clones.

I must say that the reason for (B) still eludes me.

[The Lizard of Oz]

[Greyharp]

I think you might be on to something there edsan.

I had a bit of a break from rpg's a couple of years back, after moving interstate and away from my regular gaming group. When I got back on the forums and discovered the clones, first OSRIC and then BFRPG, I was very excited. Then along came LL and I found myself in a bit of a quandary, but decided I'd like to try out both games.

Since then I must admit I have become a bit exasperated by the amount of edits and releases of BFRPG. I've become a bit cynical about there ever being a finished product, and I'm a finished product kinda guy, which puzzles me as to why others aren't as frustrated as I am by the ever-changing nature of BFRPG. I've actually stopped actively following BFRPG threads and I'll wait till one day I hear on the grapevine the words "It is finished!", before I'll download it again and have a look. I believe Chris is a member of this forum, so maybe he can give us a clue as to when we'll see a light at the end of the tunnel.

In the meantime though, I have to say I am unashamedly a D&D fan and have never been the sort that believed it was a game full of holes and errors that needed fixing, which I suspect is the attraction of BFRPG for some people, and so for me LL (and hopefully OSRIC v.2.0, as well as S&W) is a real treasure. Over time my opinion of BFRPG has changed till now it is something I'm curious about and would like to try one day, but in my mind it isn't a true clone of the game I love - D&D, whatever its incarnation (0e, 1e or Basic) and so could never replace the love I have for LL and what Dan has done.

So after that ramble, I guess I come back to my belief that to answer Brad's question, edsan's point might be very close to the mark.

[Thakazum]

I have noticed that also. The draw for me to BFRPG is separate races and classes... but that draw hasn't been enough to pull me from LL.

[Random]

I actually prefer races as classes.

With races and classes separate, you have some guy write a custom class, which is well balanced for human characters, but the author may not have considered all the possible exploitability for different races using the class.

With races as classes, you have some guy write a class with all balance considerations built into the class to begin with. Simpler to plug in without issues.

[Brad]

I suppose I dislike BF because, unlike LL or OSRIC, it tries to pass itself off as a "new" game. There are a lot of changes I don't particularly care for when compared to both D&D and AD&D. I'm still not entirely sure why I dislike BF so much and why LL seems vastly better, but it could just attitude. Whereas LL and OSRIC seem to be homages to D&D/AD&D, BF gives off a "Hey, I fixed this" vibe.

[Wulfgar22]

[Glgnfz]

yeah! let's not start a "miniature edition war here"...

i like both solo's work and lab lord, for me it's the artwork and the presentation that won the day for lab lord AND i want to play "d&d" and lab lord "is" d&d while basic fantasy is its own "new" game.

[hellbender]

As an advocate for oldschool gaming I am behind any professional presentation of traditional playing styles. S&W (the upcoming white box clone) will certainly appeal to some people over others as well. The community is tight-knit enough that there shouldn't been any lines drawn in the sand, just a live and let live approach to whichever system works best for the group.

_________________
Traditional Adventure Roleplay Gaming Association Talk, an oldschool rpg Yahoogroup
Up the airy mountain
Down the rushy glen,
We daren't go a-hunting,
For fear of little men--William Allingham

[Wulfgar22]